I know its Mel Gibson, but just due to the subject matter I kind of want to see it.
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Sun, December 10, 2006 - 11:18 AMyes
saw it last night
i thouht because it was mel gibson, that he would completely exlploit the way he portrayed indigenous people, and that his christian angle would come in harshly with the arriva; of the very chrisstian Cortez.
so i was amazed when this did not happen.
I have studied meso american culture to some degree, and although I would still like to get the opinion of a prof who has her phd in this specific area,
i think gibson actually created a somewhat believable story line...
amazing .
it is really a gripping film, has you on the edge of your seat, and has as many lovable characters, as it does, evil ones.
i do recommend it and look forward to more posts on this topic.
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 8:39 PMsaw it, loved it, buying the dvd.
felt like i was watching a documentary. the lead actor is fantastic (if nothing else, i hope he gets an oscar, or something...). makeup (what i'm assuming is for most piercings, tats and body mods) is flawless.
i'm not a mayan scholar but from what little i know, it seemed accurate/realistic enough.
best movie i've seen all year. honest. -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 11:18 AMI discussed the film with a coworker of mine who *swears* the people we're watching in the film are actually Aztecs, while the film portrays them as Mayans speaking (reconstructed?) Mayan.
She swears it is the Aztecs who did the whole 'sacrifice on the tower by ripping out beating hearts' thing. There is also a possible time conflict in the movie. I'd say more but it'd give away the ending.
Maybe Gibson and the writers just thought they'd do a movie about the Mayans and give them aspects that the Aztecs had since we don't know as much about the Mayans? makes sense to me. -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 1:39 AMhmm,
yes
i took it as being in a version of maya language,
and as jaguar paw's tribe as being of or related to the Maya,
and as the bounty hunters living a more aztec lifestyle,
yet i am unsure whether the aztecs believed in kukulkan/quetzacoatl....
i agree, just an amazing visual and adventuring journey of a film,
and thak goodness for that somewhat hopeful ending,,,,,,,,,,,,,
so spooky seeing cortes' ships out there in the water, knowing all the destruction that ensued after he hit shore.
:( -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 2:13 AMp.s. they are having a good go at this topic
(or trying to)
inn the 2012 tribe.....
join in! -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 4:00 PMthe maya def did the sacrifices.
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:13 PMI saw the film, and really enjoyed it. Particularly the emphasis on non-verbal communication over actual dialogue.
However, I found the film somewhat culturall insensitive, especially in light of the quotation at the beginning (about a civilization destroying itself internally before external invasion). To me, it seemed Mel Gibson was suggesting that blood sacrifice, etc., marked the ultimate in moral depravity, and was some pinnacle of "barbarism" which would be addressed by the missionizing arrival of Cortez and christianity.
This is, however, my own opinion.
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:08 PMsaw it, loved it ... especially breaking free of "the Fear" theme
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 8:07 PMI haven't seen the movie, and really am skeptical of how 'accurate' it is, especially after discussing the film with some collegues of mine who have specialized in the Mayan Archaeology...Espectally the fact that Cortez arrives during the time of the collapse of the Mayan Empire which is oh, I dunno...off by like 500 years??
When I see any movie made (Especially in Hollywood with a ton of money) with regards to any historical period, I take it with a HUGE grain of salt. I think it's the best way to approach these kinds of films. I'll wait to see it on DVD, and save my $12 for something else.
And Tiger, yes the diety of the Feathered Serpent/Quetzalcoatl is common in many Mesoamerican Cultures, dating back to the Olmecs..and apparent in Teotehuacan Mayan and Aztec cultures, among other groups. Look here for some basic info:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Mon, January 8, 2007 - 2:02 PMI wouldn't automatically presume that blood sacrifice is indicative of a system's downfall, yet if that sacrifice has become a daily occurrence, propitiation of the gods to that degree indicates that things are definitely "not well" in the world, be that due to external pressure, crop failure, geologic or meteorologic disasters, and whatnot. If propitiation sacrifices WERE, in fact, a daily occurrence, then it IS suggestive of a culture in the decline. Besides, barring overpopulation, such sacrifice does nothing to maintain a positive population growth ;-). -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Tue, January 9, 2007 - 10:23 AMonly if propitiation isn't the norm.
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Thu, January 11, 2007 - 7:51 PMI understand your point, sacrifice to the gods of one's own people as a daily occurance wouldn't exactly be an indication of a healthy society. But I have a hard time accepting that such events would indicate a society in decline. Indeed, the film doesn't quite make it clear as to whether the sacrificial victims were even of the same ethnic group (despite possibly speaking the same language). -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, January 12, 2007 - 4:41 AMConsider this then, if the gods are treating a society well, then what's the point in having to propitiate them daily? If they're treating a society poorly, then it might just be the thought of those making such decisions that they haven't offered the gods "enough" propitiation, which DOES, throughout the archaeological record, point to an INCREASE in sacrifice during times of societal decline and other misfortune.
That's the only point I was hoping to make. -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, January 12, 2007 - 4:49 AM... because, either the sacrifice is done with Belief in the Good it will do, OR it's done for public consumption (or both), at which time one might expect a "cause and effect" pattern resulting in fewer sacrifices when things are going well and more when the gods need appeasing (or the people need to see that their leaders are doing "all they can"). Either way, sacrifice is either a "ritual", practiced on holy days or in celibration, or a "routine", done daily or even more often, because if things ARE going well, what need have the leaders of a society to prove to their people that they're doing "everything they can to appease the gods"? -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, January 19, 2007 - 3:18 AMIn every epoch history and media have given distoted images of populations.As John Lennon said in srawberry fields nothing is real.The greeks thoght about iperborea a place populated from negros black and disgusting, with a language the bar bar almost animal.In the roman empire the believing about the european populations was exactly the same.The most of americans are convinced that Anishinabweks are redskins the europeans instead think that they are savages in a civilization context.I will never win a nobel prize but for me the Maya are the descendats of Wanheim described in the Edda seniores and allied of Venus against the Troy mafia.After the Aztlan destruction from Anishinabweks the weendigo went in Mexico bringing with them a high conception of violent supremacy founded over their Kali believings.Maya a high evoluted socially and scientifically speaking population went in Amazon.That population is still today oppressed from narcos,wood mafia etc.Their language is the argot a sort a napolitan dialect and in other languages you can perceive the influence of many european languages.In Chiapas they are still fighting for freedom.I think that the only movie showing the Maya civility is Emerald forest. -
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Re: Anyone seen Apocolypto yet?
Fri, February 16, 2007 - 2:06 PMI thought about not wasting my time with a comment about this movie but after thinking about it somemore I decided it was necessary.
I liked the movie but as history and cultural comment it is worthless; all it is, is "Lethal Weapon In Loin Clothes." It isn't even worth most of the debate here.
I liked it because I enjoy the eye candy of period costume reasonably well done and I like action genre even when it is hard to suspend disbelief but the history is wrong, the details vapid, and the cultures conflated to meaningless. As for social comment it is just another Hollywood exploitation of sensationalist aspects of the period. Nothing new here folks.
The history is simply wrong, first of all the Maya that met Cortes were predominantly the forest dwellers and fisher folk, not urban because the great cities of the Maya had been in ruin for most of 500 years already by the time he arrived. Only token survivors lived among the broken stones and buildings.
Second, and this one stuck out for me like a sore thumb, and should to anyone that fancies them self a student of Maya cosmology; a solar eclipse can only occur on the New Moon, there is no way the moon could have risen on the same night as a solar eclipse by day. Also one of the astronmomical things that the Maya were quite certain of, is when they were going to happen; so they would be the last people surprised by such an event.
Third, while there may be a stereotyped commentary on the difference between urban and rural culture, I suggest that you don't read too much into that either. It was the Aztecs that hunted the forest tribes in *flowery wars* the peoples for ritual sacriufice. The Maya fought city state battles more like the Greeks and they didn't generally hold mass sacrifices (though some did occur) but tended to have more significant ritual ones associated with calender events such as the period to synchronize their solar and lunar calendars. They did take slaves and hostages but they also would free some for ransom of crops and other things. Their city states were often fighting among one another. They, like the Greeks, were united in religion and language (culture) but not politics.
In general the costumes were accurate, which is fun to see but the misuse of the ball courts for example, for a type of game that never transpired for these people, is simply a Western prejudice expressed in cliche. All in all this movie rates a F on history, a C on effort, a C+ on overall design and a D on cultural analysis and plot. If you want to see a fast paced remake of the modern action epic set in Mesoamerica then go for it but otherwise don't expect too much. The plot, theme, and background are full of gaping holes, not just ritual piercings.
Oh if you don't believe me then go watch it for yourself.
www.peekvid.com/feature/mo...alypto.html
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