Tribe versus ethnicity

topic posted Tue, June 17, 2008 - 1:22 AM by  Africa_research
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Hey there,

I am working on my PhD on ethnicity in Africa and some colleague of mine suggested that there is a difference between tribes and ethnicity. For example, he said that in Tanzania there are only tribes and not ethnic groups. I come from an economist/political science background (meaning I have absolutely no clue why there should be a difference), so any suggestions for literature on the difference between tribes and ethnic groups is greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks a lot!!!

A.
posted by:
Africa_research
Texas
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  • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

    Fri, June 20, 2008 - 3:43 PM
    Hey!

    Unfortunately, I am only an undergraduate student and I don't have expertise in that particular section of anthropology past introductory level. But the University of Alabama does have an online glossary for anthropology and this may be a good start for you.

    www.as.ua.edu/ant/glossary.htm

    tribe-A relatively small group of people (small society) who share a culture, speak a common language or dialect, and share a perception of their common history and uniqueness. Often refers to unstratified social groups with a minimum of (or no) centralized political authority at all, organized around kinship lines. (Hunter and Whitten, 1982)

    a territorial population in which there are kin or nonkin groups with representatives in a number of local groups. (Ember and Ember, 1999)

    ethnicity-The characteristic cultural, linguistic, and religious traditions that a given group of people use to establish their distinct social identity -usually within a larger social unit. (Hunter and Whitten, 1982)

    Ethnicity is a multifactorial concept including, but not limited to, cultural constructs, genetic background, ecological specialization, and self-identification (Crews and Bindon, 1991).

    Maybe you should start by looking up those authors. Good Luck!
    • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

      Sat, June 21, 2008 - 8:54 PM
      It seems to me that the difference is contextual. You have a group of people that share a history and culture and are self-contained (tribe) and one that is part of a larger group, like a subset of that group (ethnicity) i.e pygmies vs. basque etc.
      • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

        Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:53 AM
        Sure it can be defined as simply as "ethnicity" being a genetic correlation while tribes are social groups ?
        • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

          Sun, June 22, 2008 - 11:28 AM
          The thing about that Bloke, is that ethnicity isn't necessarily related to genetics. You can have two people in an ethnic group that are not closely related genetically. Ethnicity, just like race is a man-made concept as genetic research has proven. It's an issue of identity, not physiology other than what our eyes tell us.
          • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

            Sun, June 22, 2008 - 11:40 AM
            Badly phrased on my part (and at 4:37 am - probably not the time to fix it :)

            But "ethnicity" (and I did us the " " in my first post) is about the identity a "look" creates.. - especially to outsiders..
            • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

              Mon, June 23, 2008 - 12:32 PM
              No, not at all.

              I have red hair and fair skin, and am ethnically Irish (well, Irish-American, which is a sort of quasi-fictive subset). So are people who are very brown-skinned and brown-eyed, those with black hair and blue eyes, etc. Some Italians are blond, others dark. People can have very dark brown skin, live in roughly the same place in Africa, and have an entirely different genetic makeup.

              Ethnicity has to do with language, customs, self-identification, etc. Tribes are social structures, perhaps administrative units: family structure, region where you live, lineage, history, etc.
              • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                Thu, September 11, 2008 - 5:53 PM
                I started thinking about the next larger group after tribe ... ethnicity ... ??? (do we need some nasty aliens to finally unite us? The Lathe of Heaven style) and it crossed my mind that maybe all the attributes of tribes vs. ethnicities are derived attributes? Tribe is the smaller groups, ethnicity is the larger grouping, and all their attributes, specifically differences, arise from the practical aspects of their size? For example, languages tend to be similar across tribes while different across ethnicities simply (or not so simply) due to the mechanics of how languages spread and change.
                • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                  Thu, September 11, 2008 - 8:49 PM
                  They don't have to do with group size. They have an entirely different function.

                  Tribes are units of internal social organization. They have to do with who you marry, who your political leadership and alliances are, the paths by which you trace your own family lineage, and the complex interplays of kinship.

                  Ethnicity is a much more generalized set of cultural attributes: language, location, customs, clothing--how a people describe themselves and how they are described by others, in relation to other cultural groupings.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                    Thu, September 11, 2008 - 8:55 PM
                    Another example: the Celts.

                    Different Celtic groups spoke very different forms of the Celtic language, depending largely on what region they lived in. They lived in different places, wore different clothes, had different customs and decorative arts.

                    But they were all similarly tribally structured--the Irish tuath, the Scottish clain---I don't know the welsh or Breton or Manx word for the same thing at the moment. The tuath consisted of a king, his poets, his legal advisers, his military defenders, and those who had sworn fealty to him---his retainers. His retainers sent the king, and also each other, their children for fostering, and assisted each other in battle.

                    That's a tribal structure that was more or less common to all European Celtic-speaking peoples (ethnicity) at one point in history.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                    Thu, September 11, 2008 - 9:19 PM
                    > They don't have to do with group size. They have an entirely different function.

                    So you are saying it's not true that tribes always smaller than ethnic groups?
                    • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                      Thu, September 11, 2008 - 10:34 PM
                      Just that it's not really about size, but rather function.
                      • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                        Thu, September 11, 2008 - 11:41 PM
                        > Just that it's not really about size, but rather function.

                        Sorry to keep hammering on this, but it seems to me that tribal groups are significantly smaller than ethnic groups. So I'm asking why?
                        • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                          Thu, September 11, 2008 - 11:56 PM
                          The point is that there is no natural progression from one to the other by size at all because they are conceptually disparate. One has little to do with the other and they can exist exclusive of one another. No doubt, there are ethnic groups that are generally smaller than tribes, so there's no point in connecting the two. It would be arbitrary. You can have only a handful of survivors from an ethnic group that don't even live in the same geographic region or live similar lifestyles.
                        • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

                          Tue, September 16, 2008 - 5:51 AM
                          >Sorry to keep hammering on this, but it seems to me that tribal groups are significantly smaller than ethnic groups. So I'm asking why?

                          If I understand correctly, a tribe would be either the same size or smaller than the ethnic group to which it is included, but it might be larger than some ethnic group to which it is not included.
  • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

    Tue, July 1, 2008 - 8:35 AM
    If I understand correctly, there are tribal societies in which tribes prefer to select mates from outside the tribe, such as by trading females.
    The larger society could be more-or-less genetically homogeneous as a result of this, even if the tribes have different laws, religious practices and linguistic variants.
    • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

      Tue, July 1, 2008 - 2:16 PM
      For example, Scotland was once a tribal society. At one point, everybody spoke Gaelic (or English, depending on the point in history). Everybody lived in Scotland, and looked, well, Scottish. But the social structure was clan-based. Each clan had a leader, a territory, a kinship structure, and a specific set of kinship and territorial alliances. Of course you would marry outside the clan--you forged alliances that way with neighboring clans, and also avoided the unpleasantries of incest.

      I'm wondering now if ethnicity, like race, is only recently relevant and only relevant as describing a set of self/other relationships. For the traditional Scots, ethnicity only became relevant when the culture was threatened by outside, being not-English, whereas the clan system was how they organized themselves internally.
  • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

    Fri, September 19, 2008 - 9:09 PM
    i am a armchair anthropologist...when i read your post this is how it broke down in my mind.
    i am part cherokee indian.supposedly. its hard to trace that sort of thing if you are not of european descent here in the us.
    but you will notice that the tribe called 'cherokee' ranged throughout most of the southeast us, from about virginia heading on into sc,and ga,not so much florida. they were a large group of native americans sharing similar cultures,language and beliefs.when the europeans arrived and the fighting began& the drifting towards the midwest,smaller tribes ( what was left of them ) fleeing from from the ensuing slaughter and loss got sucked into the 'cherokees'...because they ( the cherokee ) were large enough to hold back the tide for a short while.
    but even within the group of 'actual ' cherokees ' there where differences.the tribe was large enough to have them,such as the so called differences between southern Italians and the northern ones.
    and no doubt these people were very similar,having very small differences.genetically, they were probably the same.
    but they belonged to different 'tribes'...
    you probably did not get much difference in skin color,height,build,hair texture,ect.
    so the cherokee would be a ethnic group.while the creek indians would be a 'tribe',too small to be a culture all to itself.but still different from the larger ' cherokees'
    no doubt the cherokees on the beach were different from the cherokees living in the appalachian mountains.
    if i don't make sense,ignore me...i am on my third glass of wine.
    hugs,
    voudou
  • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

    Mon, September 22, 2008 - 7:00 AM
    Perhaps you could use the ethnicity of Judaism for a measure. There is one ethnicity, labeled Jew. And there are twelve recognized tribes who all have a slightly different set of tribal rules within the original ground rules of the whole group.
    • Re: Tribe versus ethnicity

      Mon, September 22, 2008 - 7:10 AM
      Not sure that works as an analogy. There are distinctly different ethnicities within Judaism: Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Mizrachim are the ones I can think of.

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